Some friends and I got into a very interesting and enlightening conversation the other day. One friend, we’ll call her Jenny, had just accidentally found out that her husband had been looking at porn for the past several years and was horrified. She went into the confusing feelings she was having dealing with it all.
- She had been lied to. Even when she directly asked him about it, he denied it. He did not confess until she presented her evidence she had come upon. Her husband, whom had been a fantastic dad and husband for their entire relationship had lied to her – for years. He had cracked that solid base that she stood and relied on to function in life. What else could he be lying about?! What else could he have hidden after all these years while being able to look directly into her eyes and lie!?!
- Was she not attractive enough for him? All the women in the porn videos are completely made up with ridiculously impossible bodies (often surgically and/or digitally altered) for her to achieve, especially after kids. What if he was going there because she was not enough for him anymore? Should she put in more effort into losing weight? Wear more provocative clothing? Make-up? Get a boob job??
- Why was she trying to appease HIM? Why was she putting all of this on herself? She should love herself and he should love her just the way she was, but obviously he didn’t.
Another friend, let’s call her Wilma, just brushed off Jenny’s concerns and said “I don’t see the problem, all men do it, and it’s actually healthy – sometimes I’ll watch it with my husband if we want to spice it up a little.”
When the men (adamantly trying to avoid being involved in the conversation by watching the tv and fervently discussing soccer) were questioned, one’s point of view was that there is a lot of pressure on a man (or a decent one I’ll interject) to make sure the woman is interested in fooling around, and then has a good time during intercourse and that with porn, there is no pressure in either way and he can just enjoy himself all by himself and not feel stressed.
We understood that, but Jenny’s feelings were also pertinent. They were REAL feelings and it was okay for her to feel those feelings. We encouraged her to talk about it with him so that they could each air out what they were feeling and discuss it.
Later, we asked her about it and she said that her husband had no idea how looking at porn would hurt her, that he had never even thought about how it would make her feel and that he was just sold the normalcy of it through TV, advertisements, media, etc. He claimed that now that he knew how much it hurt her, he would never go back to it. I was like, “so if he didn’t think it would hurt you, why did he lie about it to your face?” She said he was just ashamed because it was embarrassing.
Hopefully, Jenny got one of the *rare* good ones and he will uphold his word. But what has gotten us into this conundrum? Is Jenny being silly for being upset about this? Should we, as partners, just expect “boys to be boys” and internalize our feelings of betrayal, hurt, or not being good enough? Do men just have the unspoken okay to go out and seek other sources of sexual entertainment without their spouse’s consent?
Watching shows like “The Crown” I see that back in the day, it was quite normal, though not talked about for men to go to “Gentlemen’s club” and to seek other women’s attention that way. Since, this has become less acceptable, but online porn is still VERY easily available. Many will tell you that it is perfectly normal and healthy, and if everyone involved in the decision to partake is ACTUALLY okay with it, then, sure, go for it, it’s not hurting anyone per se. But, this conversation makes me wonder – How many women or partners just pretend to be okay with it so they will not appear “uncool”? How many accept it and tell others to accept it because they feel they cannot change men and if they make a big deal out of it, no men will want their prudish selves?
I’ve been listening to a book called “Boundaries” and one thing I’ve learned from it and will try to apply to this subject is that everyone has their own limits and boundaries as to what they find acceptable behavior. From the get go, if you find the idea of your partner doing something wrong or unacceptable, you set that line. I bet a lot more people would set a line if they thought it was okay to. If you would feel hurt by your partner looking at others for sexual pleasure, you say “I’m not doing that.” and set that limit for you and your partner. Your partner will either, with respect and love that they should have for you, say, okay, I will stop, or tell you you’re being ridiculous and continue to bring you harm.
The main point is: you and your partner should feel comfortable with each other AND with each other’s set boundaries. There should be open conversations about LITERALLY everything. To be honest, I am a terrible communicator in that I cannot get the right words out when I want to – the other day I was angry with Tony and told him “I want to love you, but am not able to right now”. What he heard was “I don’t love you even though I’m supposed to” He, then, proceeded to sink into a deep depression for at least 24 hours. I thought he was just pouting because I had gotten onto him, so ignored his behavior. When I finally talked to him about it, I found out how my statement had come off and had to completely reword my statement. In typical Emily fashion, still not communicating well, I said “I didn’t mean that I want to love you like I want to like cheesecake (because I absolutely don’t like cheesecake, but everyone talks so highly of it), I meant I want to love you like I want to eat an entire chocolate cake, but know I shouldn’t” because he had wronged me. He understood and we’re fine now. Just a little communication. I have told him since that when he feels put out by me or my words, he needs to IMMEDIATELY say something like “wow, that kind of hurt. What I HEARD was… ” and then I can immediately confirm that’s what I meant or change my wording.
Sorry, got side tracked. The point is, it’s okay to set personal boundaries and expect your partner or future partners to respect those boundaries. There’s no point in bottling all of your heartache up because you feel that you’re supposed to accept things you personally cannot accept. THAT is NOT healthy.
*Side note about porn* – I’m not picking sides here. If both partners are absolutely and honestly okay with it, then great! But have the conversation and really talk about how it makes each other feel before continuing.
As always, an insightful piece.
The problem with porn is that it’s addictive. The pleasure a person gets watching it is hard, if not impossible, to give up. I believe that porn is a conversation that a couple should have and the line drawn very early in the relationship, because once it is rooted into a person’s routine it may not be possible to step back over the line.
It is addictive. Glad that Emily has been reading Boundaries.
My first and most important problem with this situation is lying about it until there was indisputable evidence!
I would not go to the self esteem bashing, those vids and the people in them are unrealistic to everyday life romance.
I would want to talk about what’s missing in the relationship for him and why have we not talked about it? What needs does he have that he feels cannot be met with his spouse? And so on.
In my mind he knew exactly what he was doing and he knew that she would not approve. Therefore, that relationship will be scarred for a long time or will eventually end.
I think there is another perspective that may be missing. Men are raised to be protectors of their families….but they also have needs. I don’t know your friend but chances are pretty good that her husband was very aware that his porn habit would bother his wife. Also assuming that he loves his wife and is sexually attracted to his wife, it is entirely possible that his sex drive may at times be greater than hers (or need less prep work as was mentioned in your piece) and the porn is his outlet so that he can be the loving father and husband she knows. I am not saying that lying is acceptable……honesty is always best, but it is possible he felt trapped by his desire not to hurt his wife (who I suspect has made her feelings on porn quite clear). Communication and understanding is a two-way street….if they can get past the lies (counseling?) it will be important for your friend to try to understand the why of his porn watching without judgment. If it is an addiction, he will need her support……if it is just that their sex drives are different, they will have to work together to see what solutions are available.
I hope Tony realizes he has a wife whose intellectual star shines brighter than the sun, whose loveliness is unequaled and whose picture should appear in the dictionary under M, for mother.
Some guys 🤗have all the luck…….
Hang tough, kids…….you’re doing great in an otherwise difficult world👍🙏☘️🤠
As an older guy I believe watching porn is never OK. Something else is going on. I husband to watching porn he may be also looking or wanting to find the real thing. Something afoot in happening. As you said, what else is he lying about? Best of luck to all.
There may be a generational difference here, but what I’m hearing is “he makes me feel . . .” No. YOU choose to feel; nobody can make you feel bad UNLESS you decide to REACT that way.
Boundaries? Maybe. But it’s also trying to control someone else’s behavior; you control your own. Who elected you king/queen? Did the wedding vows include control over what someone watches, reads, feels? Does infidelity mean actual infidelity or wandering eyes and thoughts? Humans are sexual beings. Demanding that anyone be exclusively stimulated by only one vision puts the brakes on a lot of imaginative fun. Marriage is a long long road. Pick your issues carefully. You could hurt yourself.
I used to work at a public library where the director allowed men to look at porn on unshielded computers. As far as I was concerned that activity was horrible and a waste of taxpayers resources. So glad I’m retired now.
I love you and your honesty.
Porn can tear up a marriage. I’ve seen it happen. Think about it this way. Yes, there are women out there willing to do it. But what about those who aren’t? What about kids who are forced to? It happens. And trying to rationalize it away won’t work. It should never be acceptable. Neither should lying about it for years–years! I hope that Jenny and her husband have gone to counseling. The marriage is salvageable, but not with porn in the mix.
Porn is an addictive behavior and if he has been secretly watching for years he is not going to just stop. They need to invest in good marriage counseling. The first may fit great but if not find a new one. Counselor should not take sides but guide them to a healthy marriage.
Don`t over think it, Like most of the post say Porn is not good for a relationship. I would like to see what your reply would be 20 years from now. ( things change) Lying is not right . I hope (jenny) can forgive ,and her husband can learn to tell the truth and they be happy the rest of there life.
Porn is never OK on both sides of a relationship. Men’s is very visual (think Playboy magazine). Women’s is more verbal (think Cosmopolitan magazine). I agree with BEAR’s comment above and also Frank’s. Porn is the gateway to much worse behaviors.
There is also another side of the coin which was not in today’s discussion: The devastating effect it has on kids both boys and girls. I hope everyone realizes that the littles will snoop when you are not around. Nothing goes un-noticed by them. Little girls are insecure enough on their own. Little boys grow up to see women as objects. Porn also leads to the gender confusion rampant in our world today. Be sure your sin will find you out.
An interesting and thought provoking conundrum. My goodness, Dr. Emily, you are also interesting and thought provoking for presenting this to us!
Probably one of the last things I expected to read on your public Blog, but none the less an important read. Keep being who you are.
I need to hash this one around in my brain some more. I agree with all that’s been said, on both sides of the equation. I don’t want to dismiss it by bringing up a math analogy, but this is a mind boggling scenario, to be sure. Such an important discussion in all respects.
Awhile back I was in the middle of a divorce and being questioned by my ex’s attorney. I don’t remember if I swore to tell the truth or not, but I suddenly felt that I was not going to lie, no matter what I was asked. My point is that lying is a BIG deal in a marriage. My ex never talked about anything, even if I asking him. The answer was always “nothing”. While I’m creeped out by porn, the fact this joker lied and lied for years is terrible. I would see a counselor because I would need to figure out if I could continue in the relationship and/or trust him again.
I knew a newlywed couple years ago in the same situation, only the husband was quite open with his wife about his porn use. Although she did not like it, she decided to sit down with him one day and watch with him to see what all the fuss was about. As they usually are, the female performers were all artificially pumped and plumped with silicone. She, however, was zeroed in on the VERY well endowed male performers who were “larger than life”, shall we say? After catching her breath, she commented “Wow, maybe I should have shopped around a little more”. Her sheepish husband immediately turned off the movie, and never watched another one again.
If anyone thinks Jenny’s husband was being honest that he won’t do it anymore now that he knows how it makes her feel then let me enlighten you: NO WAY WILL HE STOP. He’s lying to her again. After all, he lied to her already until she pinned him down. Clearly he knows what he is doing is wrong. It was not part of their relationship. It was his dirty, not-so-little secret. (Just ask to put all devices out in the open where anyone can access them. He’ll show his true colors..)
Second that’s BS about pressure. Many husbands love making love to their wives including making her feel satisfied. Bluntly speaking, it turns him on to turn her on. Plus what wife hasn’t satisfied her husband here and there when he was in the mood but she wasn’t? Read: he can just enjoy himself. That is the beauty of loving your husband. You show him love when he wants you to, generally speaking.
Sex is beautiful but it takes a little bit of loving investment in each other over and above the physical part.
I fear for Jenny’s marriage.
I’m not sure how I feel about this one. It’s an intensely personal subject and people will have a myriad of thoughts about it. I’m a pretty old guy and spent a life time dealing with a lot of subjects. Most subjects are best dealt with open communication. If that doesn’t work a trained counselor can be a useful facilitator. Beyond that I would be unwilling to discuss this with outsiders.
I’ve read that the leading causes of divorce are money and children. I believe its lack of communication. We are not mind readers. If there is an issue it should be openly and honestly discussed. How are we to know anothers needs if they don’t verbalize that need. Im the last person to talk about relationships as I prefer being alone. But I strive to be as honest as possible with my friend and family being attuned to the fact that sometimes just listening without judgement is all the other person needs.
Porn is a drug.
This young woman (Maria Ahlin) from Sweden (and LA?) provides an informative conversation on the effects of porn.
If the link below does not provide for a direct launch for the Ted talk web site, do a google search for “Maria ahlin ted talk”:
https://young.be/DBTb71UzPmY
She is a speaker on the subject of porn, and is an advocate, researcher, speaker and entrepreneur. She is incredibly beautiful, intelligent and genuine young woman. She will no doubt hold the attention of the gentleman watching this channel. Here, is another, of many pod casts, were she speaks on the subject:
Again if the link below fails to launch the YouTube video, do a google search for: “are we moving towards a porndemic”
https://youtu.be/F0LWwBd6r7E
My hubs watches it & I absolutely hate it but of course he says all men do it. I threw away & broke every dvd I could find but he just replaced them. He says I’m a prude & I think he’s too sexual. Like his parents grope each other in front of anyone & everyone so that’s all he knows. I on the other hand grew up completely different.